[edit] i have edited this post to Remove some of the moRe sensitive thoughts which i am afRaid (yes, kiasi) to get into tRouble with the law oR watsoeveR... especially in such a fReedom of speech country we'Re in...
theRe was an aRgument going on in the foRum of foRensic science and i got quite woRked up just Reading it...
this guy posted this on the foRum:
I refer to the slide 50 of lecture 1 notes. I strongly disgree with what it says about the discovery of Pharoah Rameses II's eldest son. What it says likely to be a picture in layman term:' the bible seems to say that it was wrong that he died through a plague' and saying that the forensic science to be on accurate term'
It requires much more faith in believing that using forensic anthropology, they assumed that the one they measured are the eldest son of the Pharoah. Anyway, it is just their assumption and it does not give solid prove that it was him. It can be any son or any relative of Pharoah.
But the Bible is the word of God. When God says that he was killed by a plague that was sent by God , it simply means it is. It requires less faith to believe this statement than the prior one. Man is just human being, no matter how far and how great the discovery of new technology, it will never outwin the word of God, because God is the super being of all.
Anyway, come back to the issue, I strongly think that the scientific enquiries has not come to a time of connecting to the investigations of the past. There are still many loopholes and as usual, man is never perfect. Science itself is very limited!
There is never new mistake in human history!
anotheR guy Replied:
Why on earth does it require more faith to believe in science than to believe in the Bible? Besides which, if this is what you think, why are you doing a module about science!? If you're prepared to arbitrarily pick up any piece of scientific evidence and say 'That's wrong because I prefer what the bible says' then science is entirely useless to you.
"But the Bible is the word of God. When God says that he was killed by a plague that was sent by God , it simply means it is." This is entirely based upon faith.
The conclusion that the person, whoever it was, was not killed by a plague is based upon physical evidence. This only requires faith that the evidence has not been faked, which is a lot less faith than in the idea that the bible is absolutely 100% infallible regardless of any contradictory evidence.
I am not arguing against your faith, and I don't necessarily think you're wrong, but I'm just pointing out that such arguments have no place nor credence in a science module.
and the guy Replied:
First Question:
'Why on earth does it require more faith to believe in science than to believe in the Bible?'
If you are living in reality, you know that God created man and God created nature. Science came when man came to a certain understanding and it is always based on assumptions, then only experiments to be carried out in order to prove the hypothesis is right. As such, science is not whole as a solid argument. So, until today, man is still trying to improve science and there are much more discoveries to make. God on the other hand made everything and therefore He knows much more detailed than man because He was the Creator. So, which one needs more faith to believe in? not until you do it yourself, would you rather believe what other human being, no difference from you said in proving something, all having some assumptions behind?
Second Question:
'Besides which, if this is what you think, why are you doing a module about science!?'
Why not? Is it wrong to know how man has succeed in discovering science? Is it wrong to know how man has used various techniques to come up with a conclusion.Has it not been interesting to know how in human history , man has discover more things, some are true and acceptable and some are not?You can't accept everything that is been said in science until you do it yourself, won't you? Or just simply received its conclusion just because someone has done the experiments?
Third Question:
'then science is entirely useless to you'
Really? Why not as a scientist to rebut what other scientist said. I am studying science as my major. There are many things that can be done to prove some scientist are wrong using science itself as the foundation ground if needed their believe. As there are more that will be incorrect due to many factors: eg, greed, money, etc..Science will not be entirely useless for me.
Fourthly,
'such arguments have no place nor credence in a science module'
Why not? Judgments on such is just based on your assumptions and your point of view. It has not even come as a collective view.Don't forget, things you see with your naked eye is limited. There is much that a naked eye can't see and that includes God. The naked eye cannot see, doesn't mean that it is not there. Science is about nature, how much more must it includes the super being!
I HATE IT when people talk like that. so if u aRe one of those who believe in the SUPER BEING, please, PLEASE, dun talk to me like that.
i was going to post a Reply in pRotest to that but was stopped by deaR...
so i'm going to vent it heRe... i RemembeR i was once appRoached by a chRistian duRing freshmen matRiculation outside the MPSH... that giRl walked up to me, asking me whetheR i want to join theiR chuRch activities oR something like that... i veRy politely declined, hoping the uncomfoRtable and sensitive conveRsation would end theRe.. that giRl peRsisted... she kept asking me why i dun believe in god, in a tone that Really puts me off.. i managed to shake heR off finally.. but when i Recalled the incident, i always RegRetted not asking heR, WHY DO YOU NOT BELIEVE IN BUDDHA??!! oR maybe u ought to BELIEVE IN ME!!!
and Really, i RatheR believe pangu oR nuwa cReated the woRld... oR the big bang scientific theoRy...
so tell me, who Really is the supeR being of all?! ME!
oh my god? OH MY SCIENCE!
i have a fRiend (i Realised i have been using this woRd too loosely), okay, a uni school mate who believes in the god. not that i'm against his belief oR wat, i know i have to Respect otheRs' religion and stuff... he is a IMMENSE believeR... why do i say that? when he gets As foR his modules, he says it's all god's credit. when he doesn't peRfoRm that well (i.e. A- is bad to him), he says it's god's way of punishing him... whateveR things he do, he attRibutes it to god, completely denying his own effoRt in spending the days and nights mugging away... wateveR things that happen, good oR bad, he sings it in god's pRaise... it's his Religion, i shouldn't intefeRe, but he keeps saying and Repeating and telling me stoRies of god (which i am totally not inteRested) to me, a non-believeR.. well, i can respect his Religion, i think he ought to Respect mine as well. kaiyan and i weRe so tRaumatised by the long mRt Rides with him in the past telling us stoRies of god... and once, he even singled us out on sepaRate occasions to pReach to us... fRom then on, kaiyan and i avoided him at all costs.
i RemembeR having a good fRiend when i was in pRimaRy school who was a believeR.. we weRe quite close and things went fine till one day she pReached to me.. fRom then on, i neveR spoke to to heR again.
the moRale of these stoRies is, if u aRe a believeR, PLEASE, DO NOT PREACH TO ME. i dunwan to lose anotheR fRiend.
P.S. any Religious tags will be deleted.
theRe was an aRgument going on in the foRum of foRensic science and i got quite woRked up just Reading it...
this guy posted this on the foRum:
I refer to the slide 50 of lecture 1 notes. I strongly disgree with what it says about the discovery of Pharoah Rameses II's eldest son. What it says likely to be a picture in layman term:' the bible seems to say that it was wrong that he died through a plague' and saying that the forensic science to be on accurate term'
It requires much more faith in believing that using forensic anthropology, they assumed that the one they measured are the eldest son of the Pharoah. Anyway, it is just their assumption and it does not give solid prove that it was him. It can be any son or any relative of Pharoah.
But the Bible is the word of God. When God says that he was killed by a plague that was sent by God , it simply means it is. It requires less faith to believe this statement than the prior one. Man is just human being, no matter how far and how great the discovery of new technology, it will never outwin the word of God, because God is the super being of all.
Anyway, come back to the issue, I strongly think that the scientific enquiries has not come to a time of connecting to the investigations of the past. There are still many loopholes and as usual, man is never perfect. Science itself is very limited!
There is never new mistake in human history!
anotheR guy Replied:
Why on earth does it require more faith to believe in science than to believe in the Bible? Besides which, if this is what you think, why are you doing a module about science!? If you're prepared to arbitrarily pick up any piece of scientific evidence and say 'That's wrong because I prefer what the bible says' then science is entirely useless to you.
"But the Bible is the word of God. When God says that he was killed by a plague that was sent by God , it simply means it is." This is entirely based upon faith.
The conclusion that the person, whoever it was, was not killed by a plague is based upon physical evidence. This only requires faith that the evidence has not been faked, which is a lot less faith than in the idea that the bible is absolutely 100% infallible regardless of any contradictory evidence.
I am not arguing against your faith, and I don't necessarily think you're wrong, but I'm just pointing out that such arguments have no place nor credence in a science module.
and the guy Replied:
First Question:
'Why on earth does it require more faith to believe in science than to believe in the Bible?'
If you are living in reality, you know that God created man and God created nature. Science came when man came to a certain understanding and it is always based on assumptions, then only experiments to be carried out in order to prove the hypothesis is right. As such, science is not whole as a solid argument. So, until today, man is still trying to improve science and there are much more discoveries to make. God on the other hand made everything and therefore He knows much more detailed than man because He was the Creator. So, which one needs more faith to believe in? not until you do it yourself, would you rather believe what other human being, no difference from you said in proving something, all having some assumptions behind?
Second Question:
'Besides which, if this is what you think, why are you doing a module about science!?'
Why not? Is it wrong to know how man has succeed in discovering science? Is it wrong to know how man has used various techniques to come up with a conclusion.Has it not been interesting to know how in human history , man has discover more things, some are true and acceptable and some are not?You can't accept everything that is been said in science until you do it yourself, won't you? Or just simply received its conclusion just because someone has done the experiments?
Third Question:
'then science is entirely useless to you'
Really? Why not as a scientist to rebut what other scientist said. I am studying science as my major. There are many things that can be done to prove some scientist are wrong using science itself as the foundation ground if needed their believe. As there are more that will be incorrect due to many factors: eg, greed, money, etc..Science will not be entirely useless for me.
Fourthly,
'such arguments have no place nor credence in a science module'
Why not? Judgments on such is just based on your assumptions and your point of view. It has not even come as a collective view.Don't forget, things you see with your naked eye is limited. There is much that a naked eye can't see and that includes God. The naked eye cannot see, doesn't mean that it is not there. Science is about nature, how much more must it includes the super being!
I HATE IT when people talk like that. so if u aRe one of those who believe in the SUPER BEING, please, PLEASE, dun talk to me like that.
i was going to post a Reply in pRotest to that but was stopped by deaR...
so i'm going to vent it heRe... i RemembeR i was once appRoached by a chRistian duRing freshmen matRiculation outside the MPSH... that giRl walked up to me, asking me whetheR i want to join theiR chuRch activities oR something like that... i veRy politely declined, hoping the uncomfoRtable and sensitive conveRsation would end theRe.. that giRl peRsisted... she kept asking me why i dun believe in god, in a tone that Really puts me off.. i managed to shake heR off finally.. but when i Recalled the incident, i always RegRetted not asking heR, WHY DO YOU NOT BELIEVE IN BUDDHA??!! oR maybe u ought to BELIEVE IN ME!!!
and Really, i RatheR believe pangu oR nuwa cReated the woRld... oR the big bang scientific theoRy...
so tell me, who Really is the supeR being of all?! ME!
oh my god? OH MY SCIENCE!
i have a fRiend (i Realised i have been using this woRd too loosely), okay, a uni school mate who believes in the god. not that i'm against his belief oR wat, i know i have to Respect otheRs' religion and stuff... he is a IMMENSE believeR... why do i say that? when he gets As foR his modules, he says it's all god's credit. when he doesn't peRfoRm that well (i.e. A- is bad to him), he says it's god's way of punishing him... whateveR things he do, he attRibutes it to god, completely denying his own effoRt in spending the days and nights mugging away... wateveR things that happen, good oR bad, he sings it in god's pRaise... it's his Religion, i shouldn't intefeRe, but he keeps saying and Repeating and telling me stoRies of god (which i am totally not inteRested) to me, a non-believeR.. well, i can respect his Religion, i think he ought to Respect mine as well. kaiyan and i weRe so tRaumatised by the long mRt Rides with him in the past telling us stoRies of god... and once, he even singled us out on sepaRate occasions to pReach to us... fRom then on, kaiyan and i avoided him at all costs.
i RemembeR having a good fRiend when i was in pRimaRy school who was a believeR.. we weRe quite close and things went fine till one day she pReached to me.. fRom then on, i neveR spoke to to heR again.
the moRale of these stoRies is, if u aRe a believeR, PLEASE, DO NOT PREACH TO ME. i dunwan to lose anotheR fRiend.
P.S. any Religious tags will be deleted.